Transcript 0:00 The thing that I'm most passionate about, or what excites me the most, is when I see an individual or a family or multi-generations of a family see what their money has accomplished. 0:13 Welcome to the Purpose Driven Capital podcast, where we help you align your money with your mission and maximize your impact. Here's your host, Matt Johns. 0:22 Today, I had a really fun conversation with Susan Weiner, principal and co-founder of Strategic Philanthropy. Now, they refer to themselves as the multifamily philanthropic office, and they've earned it. 0:32 Over the past 24 years, they've helped some of the most successful and influential individuals, families, and privately held companies develop and execute customized philanthropic strategies. 0:42 Now, Susan's had a remarkable career. Notably, she served as vice president of the Chicago Board of Trade, the first woman in a senior position at the exchange. 0:51 After that role, she founded a business strategy consulting firm, which she ran for more than 20 years. And interestingly, her career actually started as a writer, writing for 44 magazines with McGraw Hill. 1:01 Susan offers tremendous insight and advice for anyone in a position to make philanthropic impact for this generation and for generations to come. 1:09 As she shares, helping others give is her genuine passion, and I'm confident you'll hear that in our interview today. Welcome to my conversation with Susan Weiner. How did you get into this thing, Susan? 1:20 That's a very good question. How did I get into this thing, meaning philanthropy advising? Actually, it was somewhat happenstance. 1:29 I had another company, and that company I'd had for almost 20 years, and we worked with closely held and family-owned businesses, helping them avoid shooting themselves in the foot, basically. 1:41 They were entrepreneurs and I was probably the only one that could say no to them, like, "No, you can't do that," when they wanted to do something and spend a lot of money they didn't have. 1:52 And I worked very closely with them to help them from a competitive positioning perspective, from a financial and operational perspective. 2:01 We were very successful, and my business partner, who was a friend of mine, came to me and said, "I'm working with a client, a family. The wife's mother's husband died very suddenly, left $90 million." 2:15 This was in the '90s, by the way- Oh, wow... so we put it into context, 'cause 90 million today is, so then was a lot more money today. 2:23 And she had three little kids, and the attorney set up a foundation for her and kind of like handed her the keys to the vehicle and said, "Here you go." We like to tell people attorneys create the charitable vehicle. 2:39 We teach people how to drive it. [laughs] I like that. So she said, "I need help," the mother said. 2:46 And my partner, Betsy Burrell, came to me and said, "I think there's gotta be thousands of people who have lots of money and have charitable vehicles," foundations were the big thing then. 2:58 There weren't as many donor-advised funds, so, or they had trusts. And she said, "And I think that there's a business here helping them to be strategic and thoughtful around their philanthropy." 3:10 And we did some research and discovered, yes, indeed, there were very few people doing that and doing it well. So 24 years ago in 2000, we started this company, Strategic Philanthropy, but with one caveat. 3:24 I said I'd help her do it if we had a business model that we would live with and she would adhere to. And 24 years later, we have the same business model. Brilliant. 3:34 We are still following the same track of working only with ultra-high-net-worth individuals, families, and closely held and family-owned businesses to help them be thoughtful, strategic, informed philanthropists. 3:49 You're coming into it, though. This was not your professional background. This wasn't what you had done. How did you come in- No, I have... My, my pr- my professional background is so eclectic. I mean- Uh-huh. 4:00 [laughs]... when I, I never really had a career direction. This is the longest I've been in any business situation in my entire life. I mean, I've, I've done a million things, Matt. I've, I've been a journalist. 4:11 I wrote... I was assistant bureau chief for the entire Midwest for all of McGraw Hill's public- 40 trade publications. 4:18 I was vice president of the Chicago Board of Trade before they had admitted a woman as a member of the exchange. Wow. And I was still in my 20s. 4:27 I have had two companies, two other companies over and above this one, and this is my third company. 4:34 But all the way along, if you really looked at my background, you would see that a big part of what I was doing was helping people get where they wanted to go. Mm-hmm. Whatever it happened to be. 4:45 So helping them to achieve the kind of impact they want, the kind of satisfaction around using their money to make a difference in the world, is really no different than helping an entrepreneur create something that he or she can be proud of. 5:02 I love that. 5:02 So even though you hadn't specifically done philanthropic advisory work before this point, you had the confidence and the know-how to figure it all out, to figure out how to guide somebody with a $90 million windfall what to do with that for their generation and for future generations. 5:15 Is that- Yes... what I'm understanding? We, we knew a lot around family philanthropy. 5:19 But let me just point out that when we started the company, part of the research was to see who was doing this, and there weren't any people really doing it. Mm-hmm. 5:28 There were people who, kind of individuals hung out a shingle and said that they had been in planned giving or in development for an organization. They thought they could do it. 5:38 In fact, when we went to talk to advisors, financial advisors, wealth advisors, told them what we were doing, they looked at us and they said, "Why would anybody want help with their charitable giving?" Yes. 5:49 And that became the headline for our first marketing piece, which was "Why do I have to pay someone to help me give my money away?" And the answer to that is very simple. 5:59 If you have a lawsuit, do you want your plumber taking care of it? [laughs] Brilliant. So you've, you've learned a lot along the way, though. 6:07 I mean, you obviously learned from the grassroots level of how this thing worked, and you had an immediate client. What do you think, from a nuts and bolts perspective, how did you build it from there? 6:17 How did you figure that out? Well, we started with the two of us. We really started with her, and I had had my other company, and then slowly just let go of the other company and came over. 6:27 But we started with the two of us, and she has a strong background. It's... Her background is in philanthropy in, and in non-profits. So she knew the language. Mm-hmm. 6:39 In my other company, we did some consulting with large non-profits in terms of strategic planning at the board level. I knew how to talk to these people. It's not hard work. It's asking questions and listening. 6:55 That's the secret to it. It's really, you gotta know what to ask, and then what to listen for. Most people don't know how to ask the right questions. Mm-hmm. 7:04 More importantly, they actually don't even know how to listen for the right answers. Great point. And that's the secret of success. I've just given you our special sauce. 7:14 We listen, and we talk to people, and we have clients we've had for 17 years, 16 years, 12 years, because this is a business where you are dealing with people's most important things that they care most deeply about, their passions- Mm-hmm... 7:32 around what they'd like to change, and their money, where they want their money to go. And they want their money to go to something that will accomplish what they'd like to see happen. 7:43 If they wanna make a difference, they don't wanna make it with $10. I mean, our clients, our clients give away, at a minimum, a quarter of a million a year, or pretty close to a quarter of a million a year. 7:55 And so if you go up from there, you know that what you are doing, if you do it right, is you can accomplish something. You can make a difference in your community and in your world. 8:07 So when you're going through these questions, because you know the questions to ask, and if you didn't, then you know them now, what are you trying to guide people to understand? 8:13 What is the, the heart of those questions that you're trying to get people to? 8:17 Well, when we first onboard a client, we ask a couple of very important questions that help to situate them, 'cause we work with clients wherever they are on the philanthropic continuum. They could be just starting out. 8:29 They could be expanding or, or revisiting their philanthropy. They could be putting together a, a legacy plan. They wanna bring the next generations in. 8:39 We have a family we're working right now with the fifth and sixth generations, as well as with the fourth and- That's amazing... third, fourth and third generations. But the new generations are taking over. 8:50 So we ask a couple of really informal questions. First question: What's your definition of impact? Everybody has a different definition of impact. 8:59 But understanding how you define impact, what you see and, and feel demonstrates impact, is important in doing any kind of planning or any kind of philanthropic investments. 9:12 And by the way, we talk about it as philanthropic investments, not charitable gifts. The other question we ask is, what's your risk tolerance? 9:22 Now, if, if financial advisors will recognize that these are questions they ask their clients, too, before they can really put together an investment portfolio. 9:31 Well, before we can help a client put together their philanthropic investment portfolio, we have to know the same thing. 9:38 Do they wanna invest only in a United Way, or they really wanna get on the ground and do things- Yes... and, and make a difference? 9:46 Teaching a client that it's patient capital, that if they invest in an organization tomorrow, they are not going to see a result the next day. Just doesn't work that way. But helping them to understand. 9:59 So we do something called the landscape analysis, which essentially helps a client see what organizations are around in their geographic area of interest. What organizations are around that are doing what they wanna do? 10:15 What initiatives are out there that they might be interested in? Who else is investing in it? 'Cause we don't want our clients to be the only ones funding something. The, you know, who else is investing in it? 10:27 What's been the success ratio? And we bring all this information, the landscape of... 10:33 The giving landscape in their geographic area, bring all this information back to them so they can go, "Oh, I like that organization, that organization, and that one." 10:43 And then with those three, we go back in and do a deep dive due diligence. We really go in. What's their financials look like? We talk to the staff. 10:54 Are they really doing what they say they're doing, and how successful is it? What's their capacity, and what's their sustainability? So that our clients are making a informed decision and an informed investment. 11:07 But it's more than just an investment. You're taking them through a whole strategic process. 11:11 You're taking them to that passion, that impact piece that you started out with, and then you're walking them through steps to ultimately achieve that impact through a very strategic plan. Is that accurate to say? Yes. 11:22 I mean, we don't call it a strategic plan. Right. We really call it an action plan, a philanthropic action plan. But it's okay. I used to do strategic planning all the time. So yes, it is a philanthropic strategic plan. 11:36 But it's really outcome oriented. Mm. So we start at the end of the sentence. What do you want to accomplish? What's important to you? And we work backwards to see how do we get there. 11:48 One thing that comes to mind when you're talking about this is structures, because you've, you've mentioned DAFs, donor advised funds. You've mentioned trusts. There's of course direct charitable giving. 11:57 How do you help determine what structure they should be pursuing, whatever impact they're seeking? How do they determine the structure by which that's achieved? 12:06 Well, first of all, part of that business model that I mentioned earlier- Uh-huh... is that we do not do any legal or financial advice or counsel. We partner with our advisors, or our clients' advisors. 12:21 We don't wanna step on their toes. We're not in competition. We stay in our-... lane, which was in the philanthropic advisories. 12:29 But what we can help our clients do is understand the differences between a donor-advised fund and a foundation and a checkbook. And some clients have all of these vehicles to get money in, and we work with all of them. 12:45 But in many instances, a donor-advised fund is maybe the better tool. Then if that is the case, they go back to their advisors, and their advisors can set that up. Maybe it's a foundation. 13:00 Maybe they have a foundation because, like our, that first client I mentioned to you, maybe the attorney just by default created a foundation, but they only have five, six, seven, eight million dollars in the foundation, and they have to give away 5% a year by law. 13:17 Mm-hmm. And there's all sorts of- Yeah... requirements for compliance and accountability and administration, and they may be better off having a donor-advised fund. 13:27 So we don't create the vehicles, but we can help people make better use of them or figure out how to proceed. Now, you mentioned working with attorneys and especially financial advisors and all these other folks. 13:41 How does that interplay work? Because y- you said you see them as partners, they're not competitors. How do you navigate that discussion? 13:47 Because I'm sure a lot of them don't have that kind of relationship with a philanthropic advisor. Well, 24 years ago, they didn't because there weren't too many of us around. 13:55 These days, advisors, particularly wealth advisors, are much more aware of the fact that this is a conversation they need to be having. 14:04 They're uncomfortable a bit with it, and so we actually help educate advisors because it is a great... 14:11 Philanthropy is a wonderful way for them to differentiate themselves in the market and to retain clients because- Yes... increasingly, one of the things you asked me was about trends in the marketplace. Mm-hmm. 14:24 Well, one of the trends that we're seeing, and that I think is most important to know about, is that the stakeholders have changed. 14:34 Used to be that the men in the family made all the decisions, the financial decisions about investments, and they were the ones who said yay or nay about philanthropy as well. 14:47 Today, decision-makers more and more are women who are actually managing both the family's financials and in the C-suite of companies. The second stakeholder are millennials and Generation Z. 15:05 The next gen. Yeah, the next generations. Mm-hmm. 15:08 Because all of these generational changes and shifts have been driven by social media that tells them what's going on in the world, and they don't like it, and they wanna change it. That's right. 15:20 And unlike their parents or their grandparents, they don't wanna wait 50 years to change it. They wanna start doing it now, and they're going to inherit billions of dollars from the next generations. The great- Mm-hmm... 15:33 transition of money is com- is been going on for years. They're getting their money. They're, they won't work for a company that isn't doing good in the world. 15:44 So if you have a privately held company and you wanna retain your staff and you wanna hire really good people, put a philanthropic, a charitable program in place in the company, and involve them in making the decisions to how to direct it and where it should go. 16:00 So it is, it's the conversation point, and it is the way that an advisor can actually create a relationship beyond just the transactional side. 16:12 That's a great point, and that really financial advisors are not gonna be compensated for this kind of work either. 16:17 So there's a little bit of tension, I think, from the financial advisor's standard practice to introduce this into it. It... 16:23 That's just my humble perspective, but you're seeing this changing right now where that is being embraced more. It's still asking the right questions, like not how much... 16:32 You know, historically, wealth advisors or insurance would say, "How much money are you gonna give away this year?" Mm. And that was the sum total of the discussion of philanthropy. 16:40 [laughs] But increasingly, we're finding advisors are open to having a conversation with, how much money are you gonna give away this year, and what are you going to give it to, and what are you doing with your money? 16:54 There's more and more of that going on. 16:56 You see wealth advisory firms and financial institutions who are embedding people to do philanthropic advisory within their organizations, not the way we do it, and not to the level of depth and deep dive, but they have people that they can bring in and talk to the clients. 17:15 This is all in the last 24 years. Mm-hmm. Been the last 10 years. It- that's really interesting. 17:22 In, in, in that conversation, we're talking about next gens, too, and there's obviously been that transition in the power, just the sort of a power struggle within these families. 17:31 Whether they see it as such or, or not, there- there's probably some element to that. How do you navigate that as far as what the next generation wants versus what the legacy generation wants at the top? 17:41 H- how do you navigate that discussion? That's a big part of our practice because philanthropy is a non-threatening conversation. 17:50 You may not wanna talk about religion and politics at a family dinner, but talking about philanthropy can engender a whole different kind of level of communication. 18:00 So helping families to empower the next generation by asking, again, asking the right questions and then listening to what they say. So let me just walk you through an example of how we work with a family. Great. 18:15 Maybe that would help. Yes. Please. The starting point is always to understand what the family wants to do. But if you put them all in a room, they're not all gonna talk at the same time, and many of them won't. 18:29 So more often than not, we talk to each member of the family individually. Maybe in person, it may be on a Zoom, or it may be in a questionnaire that we send out. But we find out from them what do they want? 18:43 Where do they feel there are challenges? Where do they feel there are opportunities? What do they care about? Do they care about it? That's really the most important thing. 18:53 Then we take all the information from everybody, synthesize it, and then we bring it back to the table in a family meeting. It's obviously, it's anonymous, so we don't call attention. 19:05 But, you know, in a small family, it's pretty easy to know who said what. 19:09 And I mean, we had a client whose father wanted his adult children to take over the f- family foundation, but he wouldn't stop telling them what he wanted them to give the money to. [laughs] And he... 19:21 One of the siblings didn't even wanna be in the room with his father. And so navigating that type of complex tension, and wealthy families are very complex. 19:34 You really have to understand that they have more things on their mind than just their money. 19:40 What they really care about is what you wanna talk to them about, not what is negative about the family, but what would they like to do because they have control of the money. Mm-hmm. 19:53 And if you can start to empower them... And interestingly enough, we have never found that a gen one or gen two has ever said, "I don't care what they wanna do." 20:06 Because after they start realizing that the next generations have ideas, and that they really do wanna be part of the family value proposition, and that they've just never been asked. It's the ask that's important. 20:20 And then if we can teach everybody to listen to each other and take from that the commonalities or maybe explore some of the differences. 20:30 Now, over the course of these past 24 years, there have been tremendous amounts of change in the nonprofit world in general. 20:36 But you look at it legislatively, you look at it from, uh, social influence, all that kind of stuff, there's been tremendous change. 20:43 How have you seen that change affect, first of all, the actual process of making these social investments or these, I, I guess charitable investments we'll call them? 20:51 And then also from the philanthropist side, you've talked about some of those adjustments now, but are there any other changes that you've noticed in that time that even in the last few years have dramatically affected them? 21:03 The, the landscape has changed in part along with the rest of the world. It's a geo-economic environment. Mm-hmm. 21:12 But because of a lot of the things that have happened in the world, the need for support, for change, for solutions has increased. 21:24 For the last 10 or 15 years, you, it, we have seen a huge influx of migrants to the US, bringing with them desperate need for food, for security, for social justice, for acceptance for jobs. 21:43 We've seen famine around the world, the amount of food insecurity, and then just look in your own backyard, and most people are finding in their communities as they look around that there is a such a separation of, of wealth between the haves and the have-nots. 22:04 And this, governments cannot be the only ones to support this or make differences or underwrite programs. They can't. There's just not that much money, and there's not that much will, and there's not enough to do. 22:19 So they are very dependent on partnering with the philanthropic community, which is why you see so many foundations like the Gates Foundation, as an example, who focus heavily on medical and science changes to eradicate diseases. 22:37 Mm-hmm. Whether it's Ebola or malaria, to bring food and water and find sources of food and water in Africa and in the United States as well. 22:51 So what's really happened is a recognition of the need for the partnership, that philanthropy is no longer just a, uh, a nobles oblige, oblige environment. It is not a nice to do, it's a need to do- Mm-hmm... 23:06 and to do it properly. I mean, there are still many people who simply say, "I'll write a check." You know, if I say to you, Matt, "I'm really, you know, excited about this organization. Can you make a contribution?" 23:19 If I said that to you, you might very well write a check for 50 or 100 or maybe more if you could do it to that organization. But that's not making a difference. Mm-hmm. 23:30 That's making a nice g- It was very nice of you to do it, but it wasn't because it was something you cared about. It was because I asked you. 23:38 So our work is to really focus in on what the donor cares about, and if it's in the environment, if it's food insecurity, if it's education, if it's the arts, if it is social justice, if it is protecting those people who do not have anyone to protect them, then that's what philanthropy does. 24:02 Because there's no guarantees that there will be government money to do that. 24:06 And that, and that's a great point too, because when you think of government, they're taking my tax money and giving it to somebody else, and maybe doing some excellent thing and maybe helping people, but they've taken that from me, as opposed to charity, where I'm giving. 24:18 I've made that choice, and maybe somebody else asking for that gift from somebody else too. That's different because they know it's a charitable mind or charitable heart that's asking for that gift too. 24:27 So you're right, there is a transformative piece that we maybe overlook when we're thinking about these great social causes. Well, I mean, uh, you used the word transformative, and that's really what philanthropy is. 24:38 Philanthropy is a transformative opportunity for people. 24:42 To make a difference where they care about in a way that they can see the results of their efforts over time, over time being the operative words, see the results of their efforts to be thoughtful around... 25:00 We had a client whose wife had diabetes, and he decided that he wanted to fund research in the areas of, in the area of diabetes. 25:11 And so we did a landscape analysis and found he was in, uh, Nashville, and we found programs that aligned with his particular interest around diabetes. Mm-hmm. 25:22 And it happened that there was one that was really very exciting to him, but it w- and it was at Vanderbilt, which was right in his backyard. 25:29 I think for one year our client sat, stood over the scientist doctor doing the research just to watch it, he was so enamored of it, and the next year he put more money in. Mm-hmm. 25:43 The two different people got a benefit from that. Ultimately, many more will. But the- Yes... 25:50 doctor got it because he was funded for his research, and our client got the benefit of seeing that work was being done that he was supporting that ultimately might cure or at least contribute to treating diabetes. 26:07 Now, if you're talking to a family right now, or maybe there's somebody who's watching this and wondering, "How do I even get started? 26:13 What do I need to be thinking about to get started on this journey of creating a strategic philanthropic plan for myself, for my family, and for our future generations?" 26:23 Well, you know, when a client comes to us, it's usually because either they've been referred to us because they're, they really would like to be more thoughtful around their philanthropy, or they're starting out and they have no idea what to do. 26:40 Mm-hmm. 26:40 So we have a, a roadmap that we created for start, a startup philanthropist to take them through each step of identifying what their mission is, what their values are, what they care about, really moving them along the path to decision-making that aligns with who they are and what, and what they want to accomplish. 27:02 But we have clients who come into us who have been successful philanthropists. 27:08 We have a client who's been with us for several years, we actually manage, 'cause we have the capacity in-house to manage a private foundation. 27:17 We have a full-time grants administrator, proprietary grants management program, and so we're the back office for a family foundation. And this is a half a billion dollar foundation. Wow. So it isn't a small one. 27:31 And they've been giving millions of dollars away each year for many years, but they keep finding new things that they might wanna be interested in, but they wanna make sure that their investment is protected, and that's our job. 27:46 Tremendous. 27:46 And our job is, and to navigate what basically is, is a complex family that isn't always talking to each other, but they all have the same goal in mind, individually and collectively, to really do some very important things with their money. 28:05 We've talked about all these other people and their wonderful endeavors and what they're doing, but you've obviously got many things that you're passionate about. Where do you put your philanthropic efforts? 28:16 Well, one of the things that our firm tends to skew to- towards social justice. That's one of our strengths. Mm-hmm. And which manifests itself across the board in a variety of different ways. 28:30 So obviously it's one of the areas where I, what little money I have I can contribute to. 28:36 But I will tell you that the thing that I'm most passionate about or what excites me the most, Matt, really excites me, is when I see an individual or a family or multi-generations of a family see what their money has accomplished. 28:54 We do something called a community field trip, which essentially takes donors and advisors out to nonprofits. It's like a group site visit. Yeah. 29:08 But what happens is, is you actually get a chance to see what is going on from the inside out, not just on paper. Meet the stakeholders, meet the staff, see the grounds, see what's going on. 29:21 We just did one recently at a urban community farm in Chicago, and seven people went and they were transformed, totally transformed by seeing what could be done- Mm... 29:36 in a small urban environment to solve the food insecurity issues. Marvelous. That's what excites me. Well, I can tell. It comes out in the way you talk about things. 29:46 You're clearly very deeply passionate about helping other people express their passions and leave a legacy in this world. So Susan, thank you. Now, well, that's what the- Go ahead... 29:54 that's what this business is all about. It's, it's not only, you know, leaving your footprint so people can see it, 'cause we do a lot around legacy giving, but it's also around transforming the world. 30:09 You know, I like to say that our work is to create a society of informed philanthropists, one person at a time. I love that. Well, Susan, thank you so much. 30:20 Thank you for all you're doing, and thank you for this time with me today. I really appreciate it, and I look forward to, to collaborating it with you in the future. And I thank you, Matt. 30:28 Nice having a good conversation with you. [laughs] You bet. Music to me. All right, take care. Take care. We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Purpose Driven Capital podcast. 30:36 If you found this valuable, be sure to like, subscribe and share. Are you ready to align your money with your mission? 30:43 Discover the Purpose Driven Capital framework, access practical tools, and build meaningful connections to grow your movement and multiply your impact at PurposeDrivenCapital.co. 30:53 The views and opinions expressed in this show are solely those of the individual speaker and do not reflect the views or opinions of Honeyhive Capital, any broker-dealer, investment advisory firm, or its sponsors. 31:05 The content is for informational and entertainment purposes only. 31:08 Nothing in this content nor any communications from it should be treated as constituting financial, investment, legal, tax, or other advice of any kind, or as a recommendation to buy or sell an interest with respect to any investment. 31:21 We look forward to you joining us next time.
