Transcript 0:00 You have to hold your financial education alongside your social education. 0:02 I think we could do better to hold both of those together in our individual investing and our institutional investing, so that we are really trying to seek to repair the world in the way that I think a lot of our faith traditions encourage us to. 0:12 Welcome to the Purpose Driven Capital podcast, where we help you align your money with your mission and maximize your impact. Here's your host, Matt Johns. 0:22 Today, I had a wonderful conversation with Felipe Wichger, co-founder and executive director of the Francesco Collaborative, where he helps institutions, family offices, and fund managers direct their capital toward bold, values-aligned investments that build a more inclusive, regenerative economy. 0:39 Now, Felipe's career began when he was advising Fortune 100 energy firms on climate strategy before founding the Community Purchasing Alliance, where he built a $20 million a year buying cooperative owned by member churches, schools, and nonprofits. 0:54 Through this work, Felipe redirected millions of dollars in annual contracts to minority-owned companies while delivering millions more in savings to organizations serving low-income families. 1:05 Since then, Felipe has helped gather and steward communities of investors managing over $134 billion in assets. 1:12 He's also supported Catholic hospital systems, religious congregations, and philanthropic families, helping them allocate over $50 million to impact-first funds. 1:22 Now, having been in one of his cohorts in 2024, I can attest that his views are absolutely genuine. Felipe believes that people can use their capital to build a world based on their values. 1:33 So if you're looking for inspiration on how finance can be a force for justice and the common good while generating returns, you're in for a treat. Welcome to my conversation with Felipe Wichger. 1:45 I definitely wanted to talk about Pope Francis because I know that you had such a strong relationship with him, both in spirit and you've met him in person too, right? 1:53 I had the grace of meeting him at the Economy of Francesco gathering in Assisi in 2022. That's right. 1:59 And it was part of a large room, maybe a couple thousand of us, but I was with my children, and it was really beautiful to see all these people that he had inspired with his Economy of Francesco letter to young economists and entrepreneurs. 2:13 And I had felt a personal connection when I first read the letter, but then to meet him and feel the true commissioning of us to really be protagonists of transformation, it, it was very special. 2:24 That's what led to the Francesco Collaborative, correct? It did. It was 2019. 2:28 I was in a prayer group, and we were, you know, reflecting on our lives and our ambition and our hope, and we were all formed in different ways by the church, 2:40 and yet not quite sure how to integrate that into our professional lives and our ambitions. Mm-hmm. And then this letter came, and it felt like, "Yeah, we need you." 2:47 Like, we need young people that have ambition and have professional careers. Like, I had friends that were, you know, Harvard, MIT. 2:54 I had friends that were Silicon Valley, White House, and we all have these diversity of experiences. But how to bring them to kind of a spiritual renewal of the church- Mm... and structural reform of the church. 3:05 And I think so much of what Pope Francis stood for and what he did and focused his time on was, like, this synod on synodality, which is like, what does this mean? 3:12 What is this process of encounter and conversion and accompaniment? And to me, how do I actualize that work through my own efforts with a community? 3:24 That's kind of really what the inspiration was, especially around the economy and finance. 3:28 And yeah, I think the Francesco Collaborative emerged seeing so many other social enterprises, entrepreneurs, economists in, around the world grappling with these big questions and saying, "What can we contribute?" 3:41 Mm-hmm. And what, uniquely from our position in the United States, and realizing we have access to a lot of resources, a lot of philanthropy, a lot of religious congregations that did quite well. 3:50 And so wanting to kind of open the eyes of investors to see the spirit-driven entrepreneurial energy of so many people around the world. And so that's a little bit of where we came from. 4:03 So what was it like when you met him? Was it everything you thought it would be or expected? He was already frail and old when I met him. 4:09 We watched him kind of come in on the helicopter and then kind of touch down and then walk into the auditorium where we were in Assisi. 4:15 And he moved slowly, but he moved with grace, and there was a couple people from the Economy of Francesco movement that were delegated to kind of be our representatives to him and to greet him. 4:24 And then he, he just looks at you. You know, he really does encounter each person he meets. Oh. And so there was, like, a humanity in that. But he's also, like, this incredible strategist and politician in some ways. 4:34 Like, he understands that he's, like, trying to invite all of us young people into his dream for the future of the church. 4:40 And so it, it was even more pr- profound than I expected in some ways because I was there thinking about my life and pouring my life into service of the church, but then also thinking about my kids and, like, the inspiration they were having of being in this incredible moment that somebody who loves the world and aches for the world and aches for the poor and the refugee and the immigrant, but then is asking us to, like, you know, hear the cry of the poor, hear the cry of the Earth, and hear the structural problems of the global economy, and find a way to kind of use our gifts in service of that mission. 5:08 And so yeah, I did feel enlisted, invited. And that, that's one of the things you, I think, do brilliantly. 5:14 You're really good at bridging that divide between where the capital is and where the need is because it's not just about creating things for profit or for value down the road. It's for benefiting all of humanity. 5:22 And you, you just have this unique vision of being able to see that wholeheartedly, whereas, you know, mo- most of us have a strict divide between here is my business world, here's my philanthropic world. 5:32 You see the whole world as uniting together and having this, this vision. 5:36 I guess you found through the, the letter with Pope Francis and, and maybe in that encounter, but that's certainly what you've embraced through the Francesco Collaborative and, uh, everything you've developed with these incredible network of relationships since then. 5:46 Yeah, it's... I think it's also my own journey, my own struggle. 5:48 You know, I started in corporate America and consulting and saw the difficulty that many executives faced when trying to make big decisions about the future. 5:58 And I realized I wanted to root myself in a place where institutions had a set of community values that benefited the common good. 6:05 And I spent 15 years building a business in Washington, DC of churches and schools and realizing these community institutions have community values, yet it's hard to choose vendors to work with that are locally rooted. 6:16 And when you made it easy for them to make those choices, when you de-risk the, the chance of switching from a well-known name brand trash company to a local trash company, or from a janitorial company that has a big brand and reaches out well to, you know, a smaller local firm. 6:30 And then when you see the local multiplier impact, when you do shift a $100,000 contract or a million-dollar contract to a local business, what it does for the wealth building of that community, you realize it's a win-win. 6:39 And so I think realizing it's increasingly hard in this world to find win-win things, I think it feels like a zero-sum game. 6:44 But when I realized you could have win for the financial side of things and for the social and the community, you realize we have to build new engines for that. 6:52 And what so inspired me was creating a for-profit business that was owned by our customers and realizing when the business succeeded, the customer succeeded, and they got our profits every year and our distributions. 7:03 And then realizing why isn't more business like that? And I think business always serves customers, but couldn't it also serve producers and communities and future generations? 7:11 And I think that's what the church, that's what I felt my faith was calling me to do. Like, how do we build- Mm-hmm... 7:15 business engines that are inside of a real purpose mission, a social mission, a mission of transformation, a mission of enlivening people and unleashing people. 7:22 So, so much of our vision here is unleashing leadership and leadership development, especially inside of finance, and realizing we are privileged people in finance to have access to the kinds of decisions that have many more zeros associated with them than most people do. 7:35 And so realizing the order of magnitude impact of our decisions, if we can integrate those two, we can be quite impactful. And where do you think that desire came from? Is it something you've had since you were a kid? 7:44 Is it... I mean, not everybody comes into it thinking, "I wanna make an impact with money." They think about, "I wanna make money with money." Yeah, it definitely formed my parents, were both workers in the church. 7:53 My faith was strengthened through different experiences I had abroad in Latin America as a young person and then in college, fortified by a wonderful community of people that prayed together and thought big about changing the world together. 8:06 And then, you know, made more sober and practical as I worked in the energy industry and learned about the complications of regulation and policy and geopolitics and monetary policy, and realized these all things factor together. 8:20 And then as I thought about my life and work and this deep anchoring I had in, in faith values, but what is my vocation? What is my unique piece to contribute in this life, in this world? I wanted to... very ambitious. 8:33 [chuckles] I wanted a lot of impact. And so I thought, "Where, where can you have the most impact?" And I also felt like, where is my deepest sadness and sorrow? 8:41 And I think it honestly was in my 401[k] feeling like I was holding a bunch of firms that didn't feel like they aligned with my values, but yet I saw how they inched up, you know? [chuckles] And so I was like- Yeah... 8:50 but I think this also is contributing to a lot of structures of violence and sin in the world I don't wanna be connected to. And so 8:57 that struggle sat inside of me for many years until I found this great slow money movement in North Carolina where I live. And it's like, oh, you can write a check to any farmer, small business. 9:07 So I wrote a check to my local coffee shop. I met the owner. They needed like 15,000 for some new equipment. I was like, "I can write a $1,000 check, absolutely." 9:14 And I realized, oh, just using 1% of your money to do something in your community that changes helped me realize, oh, I can be an angel investor. Okay. Mm-hmm. 9:22 So I started doing startup investing, and then it kind of demystified finance and investing for me. And that journey led me to wanting to go raise money for the business I was running. 9:31 That kind of added another layer to it. And then more recently, you know, this Francesco Collaborative has been a journey to understand institutional finance, and that's really where I am today. 9:38 It was terrific to be a part of that collaborative too. That spirit of everything you just shared, of having that realization of what I'm really contributing to, to what I should be contributing to is... 9:47 I- it's, it's abundant with everybody in that group. And I mean, we're all in varying degrees of that journey too, but it's just interesting you have this magnetic ability to bring those kind of people together in that. 9:57 Now, coming to the collaborative, I, I do wanna ask you about it. What, what kind of fruits have you seen from... 10:01 Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about the collaborative, what it is and what the fruits are that you've seen from it. Well, Matt, I mean, you're just hearing about your book forthcoming. 10:08 You're hearing about your business, your purpose-driven work. 10:11 We're trying to unleash people like you that I think have a lot of passion, have a lot of anchoring in where they come from and what, you know, they feel like they're invited to do that's bigger than themselves. 10:20 And realizing that they can integrate those faith values or mission or community or other kind of purpose-driven pieces of our lives with our professional acumen. 10:28 And realizing that too often we get stuck in the bureaucracies of the institutions we're a part of, or things we feel like we can't do. 10:34 And so the Francesco Collaborative emerged in saying, how can we unleash people to integrate more of that- [chuckles]... uh, purpose-driven, mission-driven work? 10:41 'Cause most institutions, like we work with hospitals, and they have a social mission. We work with foundations. They have a social mission. 10:47 Even family offices have a family legacy to kind of uphold, and the, the values of our parents and grandparents. How do we think generationally? How do we think about the future? 10:55 So I think we all come from a place that has deep values, but how do you put those values first? Mm-hmm. And it's not intuitive because finance doesn't want you to put your values first. 11:04 So how do we create a community that has some kind of generosity and empathy? And so we realized that's not a culture that's operative in, in business or finance. Mm-hmm. 11:12 So we had to create a collaborative that has a culture, and so how do you do culture building and formation amongst a group of people? And so we try to learn from the best pedagogically. 11:22 Seth Godin happened to be the inspiration that taught me how to do that kind of culture online in a virtual format that goes deep and asks people to feel their heartbreak. 11:30 And then once you're in that vulnerable space, then how do you help people, like, see each other and mirror back what they see, and then offer feedback that-... 11:38 challenges them to grow as a coach and realize, oh, we want that depth of friendship and accompaniment, and these are the goods of life. You know, old friendships are, you know, the most valuable thing in life. 11:47 So how do you create that community that has the conditions for that? That's what the Collaborative's seeking to do. Gosh, I love that 'cause that was my experience. 11:54 What you just shared was my experience, and I love that. It was difficult conversations, but it was fun the whole time because it was that revelatory experience [chuckles] the whole time. 12:03 One of the things that we talked about is it's not easy, and, and you were just alluding to that too, that that community is so important. In fact, you have a quote that I'm, I'm gonna repeat back to you here. 12:12 "Capital can't reflect deep values without sacrificing rigor." 12:16 I think that's, that's a real illustrative quote about what it takes, but it does take a little extra work now in our current culture to demonstrate your values with your investing and your dollars. 12:26 So what did you mean when you said that, or what, what are you trying to put forth in the world? Yeah. 12:30 I think there's been a over kind of conflation of impact investing as a different or lesser kind of investing or a more ph- philanthropic activity. 12:41 And certainly there is a dimension to some impact investments that are very catalytic. They're trying to transform something- Mm-hmm... so they take a, a lower-than-market rate return. 12:48 I think there's also a lot of impact investing that's seeking market rate returns, and I think a lot of good funds out there that do that. 12:55 I think we are trying to put people on a journey to realize there's a whole field emerging. And I guess let me take a step back. 13:02 Part of what we're trying to do is recognize that Catholics, where I come from, we're inheriting a legacy of women religious who built the community development financial institutions of this country over the past 50 years. 13:13 And so Sister Corrine Florek, Sister Pat Daly was very involved in shareholder advocacy, helping companies be more corporate social responsibility. 13:20 So I feel like we're inviting the legacy of many faith traditions to actualize what could the economy look like 50 years from now? 13:28 What could a part of impact finance look like that is driving a deeper integration of purpose? And so I think sacrifice, there's a whole part of, um, the faith tradition, redemption. 13:37 There is a sacrifice involved for redeeming the world in some way, so there's a part of redemptive investing in the Protestant tradition that we respect a lot, too. 13:45 But it's really about meeting people where they're at, and I think that's the, the challenge in this work is people are at so many different parts on this journey. 13:50 And so we're trying to meet everyone where they're at today and what's the next step on that journey, and can we create a community that supports them on that next step. 13:56 So thinking about impact investing in, in general, that's a huge world right now, and it's a growing world. I mean, we've seen the ESG movement and, and what that's done over the last 20 years. 14:05 But really, I think personally it's broadening quite a bit right now into something that people are getting a little bit more personal with. Would you agree with that based on your experience? Yeah. Of course. 14:14 I think there's more options than there has been before in terms of funds that are marketing themselves as, as faith-based funds or impact funds. 14:22 I think global awareness of social challenges or environmental challenges is increasing, has been increasing. 14:28 I think the integration of those environmental and social challenges into strategies for investment has increased as well. There's been, you know, like you said, many movements, ESG. 14:38 There's lots of other ones, too, and I think the impact investing movement, the Global Impact Investing Network, has tracking these numbers and shows some, you know, particular increase in growth in that. 14:47 I think there's also interesting demographic shifts with baby boomers generation in this country having a lot of businesses they built and then transitioning those businesses, and that creates an interesting opportunity for generating or passing wealth to another generation. 15:00 And then I think younger generations showing even more desire for values first, values-based investing, and so impact investing I think is a part of that. 15:07 I think it's complicated because so much of our conversation is obviously in public markets, and much of our investments are obviously in public markets, but I really think it's the private markets where you can have the most impact and the depth of impact. 15:17 And so I think it's hard for people who aren't accredited to a-access that market, so there's a huge challenge there. 15:23 But there's a lot of new initiatives really supporting non-accredited investors to also kind of find things. 15:28 And so it's a ripe time, I think, and a lot of innovation and creativity happening, so I think we'll see a lot more impact investing, a lot deeper impact investing, I think, in the next few years. 15:35 And you've worked with a lot of large institutions. 15:38 I mean, I know that you started kind of as an accredited investor, an angel investor going into your local community, but I totaled up what I could see on your profile and whatnot. 15:45 I looked at about $143 billion in valuation or assets under management for the folks that you've been working with. 15:51 So you work with a lot of big players, and they're all trying to adapt or adopt this values-based investing strategy and model. What do you think are their biggest struggles coming into this at the beginning? 16:02 Yeah, great question. I mean, we've been fortunate kind of focusing on Catholic institutions at the beginning. 16:07 We found many large foundations and large healthcare and even large religious congregations that have significant assets under management. 16:14 And so learning from them and where they're at has been a big part of our journey, and then also branching out to some of the leading impact investors that don't have as much of a faith background, more of a, a values first background. 16:24 I think their challenge is often the mindsets and the worldviews of their boards and their investment committees. 16:29 It can often be their investment advisors or consultants not having the same clarification of thought that the individual who's championing that values first investing or that impact investing. 16:39 So a big part of our work is helping the champion at the institution help think about the mindsets and worldviews and beliefs of other people they're working with on their committees or their consultants and helping recognize that a lot of investment consultants don't have incentives to work with impact investments. 16:55 It's more, more complicated. Mm-hmm. It's more challenging, and that misalignment can create a lot of friction. 17:00 I think a big challenge also is when you're at this, you know, multiple billion asset kind of owner level, the smallest check size you can write can often be very different from the reality of where smaller emerging impact funds are. 17:12 Mm-hmm. So trying to find that balance is you have to find a, an impact fund that has established a track record that would be congruent to that. 17:19 So there's that mismatch, and that challenge is often a, a big point of work. 17:23 And then when we have, you know, smaller asset owners that I think are more catalytic, we're excited because they can do more with that dollar that can de-risk an investment and kind of take a more subordinated position to allow, you know, more senior positions to kind of take market rate returns in other domains. 17:36 So the integrated capital opportunities are also quite significant. 17:39 And you talk about the third-party folks, and that's one of the areas that I've noticed too, is it's, it's really easy to get one direction, kind of everybody rowing the boat, right? 17:48 But then getting somebody else who's got the rudder maybe, it's really hard to get them to go that same direction too because they've got their processes, their procedures, and their own interpretation of the world. 17:57 And of course, as you said, their own incentives. So it's really hard, I think, to, to organize all that. How on earth have you found ways to get everybody rowing the same direction? 18:06 Yeah, that is the crux of the work at most institutions is there's two kind of primary pieces we find. 18:13 So the, the pattern we've begun to notice is those who have been most significantly allocated to impact investments are those that often either bring in an impact investing advisor to specifically support that part of their portfolio or those that have a little more leeway and have in-house investment kind of decision-making. 18:28 Those institutions tend to be able to deploy 10, 20, 30% or more toward impact. When you have a investment consultant or advisor that doesn't have a specialty in impact, 18:40 their business model isn't gonna allow them to diligence smaller funds or support you in vetting smaller funds or doing the extra work to do the impact measurement management associated with that part of the work. 18:51 So it's quite complicated. Now, fortunately, many large firms are beginning to do a little more on impact investing because their customers are demanding it. 18:58 What we, we've done is we've actually helped, for example, a family in their foundation hire an impact investing advisor, and there are 10 plus firms that just focus on impact investing. 19:07 So you can find an impact consultant advisor that knows that landscape quite well, especially on the private side. 19:12 And so we in particular help lift up those firms and say, "Hey, there's a great menu of firms that can help you, and there are some that are, you know, lower cost, some that are higher fee, but they have different expertises, different ability to source in different ways, and ability to kinda manage your impact portfolio." 19:27 We also think about... start about asset classes. You can start in your fixed income portfolio and make some specific decisions around impact bond managers. 19:33 Community development financial institutions are very interesting established institutions that often can have very meaningful impact. Or, or start in, you know, your real assets or your alternatives. 19:43 So realizing that in any place you can start with impact, or even in public equities you can find much more impactful strategies. 19:49 So we try to meet people where they're at, where there's open to movement, and then also realizing 19:54 how clear in your investment policy statement are you willing to be as an investment committee, and what trade-offs are you willing to make? What, you know, clear assertions are you gonna make? 20:03 I think that's a lot of the hard work. Now as, as far as culturally speaking, there are a lot of obstacles that we face. Here's the question I wanna know. How do you define impact? 20:12 Because for each individual organization, it's going to be different based on their values. So how do you get to the point where you define what impact is? 20:19 Yeah, we wrestled a lot with this in our community, and one of the things we've come to recently as we've done more work to lift up certain funds versus others is compare it to something, what's the comparable non-impact fund in that asset class or in that domain, and what particular, in our case, Catholic social teaching principle does it have meaningful embodiment of? 20:42 And so Catholic social teaching has a set of principles. Solidarity, a structured commitment to neighbor love. Subsidiarity, but decision-making at the lowest level feasible. 20:51 These are things you can kind of see certain funds that do implement and don't implement. Or for a bond fund, what's the use of proceeds? In some cases, you don't know what the use of proceeds is. In some cases, you do. 21:01 You can say, "Hey, does that align with our impact or our understanding of impact or values?" 21:05 For a, a private investment, you could say this invests in this type of company and in this sector, in this geography, and so you can compare it to similar things and invest in a similar way. 21:15 And you can make clear distinctions around that. 21:17 So it's defined by the investor often, and though it is complicated to kinda have a definition that goes across investors, and so we often try to say investors of this size or this type have defined impact in a similar way. 21:30 But when you're working with tens of billions versus, you know, tens of millions or hundreds of millions, each asset owner has their own particularities and decision-making structures and beliefs. 21:39 And so part of the work is with each of those institutions, governance bodies, beginning to help them define what is meaningful for them, and then us as a community trying to provide frameworks that scaffold that decision-making so they have some unifying principles that can differentiate from things. 21:55 And so we often use a spectrum to often say there's like finance first impact investing, impact first impact investing, and catalytic. Oh, I love that. And just those three buckets- Yeah... 22:05 provide so much helpfulness 'cause, like so many impact funds are finance first. They're still gonna seek your financial return first, and they may do better than a lot of non-impact funds. 22:12 Your impact first funds are seeking that social or environmental transformation first. So financial returns are inherently gonna be in a subordinate position. 22:19 And then, you know, the catalytic ones are trying to catalyze a new growth, a new field. 22:22 So just that three bucket framework alone helps realize who we're talking to, how we're talking across, and there's just different conversations you can have when you have a simple framework like that. 22:31 On that note, I wanna think a little bit broader, maybe dream a little. If you could come up with some legislative or... Because you've worked in government, you've... 22:38 or worked with government, I should say, and on legislative initiatives, what are some things that you would like to see happen that you think would further enable people to be able to do this? 22:46 I know we talked about accredited investors having, or I guess more retail investors having access to alternatives would be certainly an area that could be beneficial. 22:54 But legislatively speaking, is there anything that you can think of that would help enable more impact investing? Yeah, it's a, it's a great question. 23:02 I think public policy has such a huge role to play on the social issues of our time, especially whether it's climate, you're talking a very big infrastructure challenge. If it's poverty or... 23:13 There's so many structural ways to address things with legislation, so I feel like policy is absolutely essential and a huge part of how we solve any of the problems in our world that, you know, we're trying to set out to, to approach. 23:25 On the investment side, I think one of the challenging... ERISA was a policy in the '70s that- Mm-hmm... created the employee retirement system, and so our 401Ks, our tax advantage accounts. 23:37 There's lots of litigation that's always happening right now. As individuals, most of our assets are in our retirement, and so they're often constrained in those individual retirement accounts. 23:46 So if there was more flexibility to direct those dollars to private investments and local investments or community investments, I think that could unleash a lot more impact investing. 23:55 That's one of the biggest, you know, obstacles I've seen 'cause I think the retirement assets are in the 30 trillion-ish kinda range of individuals in this country. 24:03 So if you were unleashing people to be able to invest in their community and through funds that had something at scale, that would be, you know, a huge transformation. 24:10 Which I guess we might be seeing soon here if they do the private equity, uh, make that available in 401[k]s and all that. Maybe... I don't know. We'll see. 24:16 [laughs] We'll see about all that, but that could be a glitch that could maybe allow that. I don't know. Absolutely. I think that will be a part of this. 24:22 I think it's good to look back, like venture capital didn't exist 50 years ago. It was legislation that enabled venture capital, right? 24:28 I think a lot of the securities laws we have were informed in the 1930s and 1940s, and one interesting example is like the credit union movement started in the '40s and '50s e- enabled by legislation. 24:39 So I think legislation can enable whole growth, like 10% of all consumer deposits are still at credit unions. So you could see whole sectors of banking and finance emerge with thoughtful policy that creates new things. 24:51 So I think it's imperative to dream about changes to the tax code, changes to legislation that could enable a lot more purpose-driven capital to be unleashed and to be actually more easily targeted. 25:03 And of course, incentives for advisors. There's also been changes of how RIAs have to disclose things. 25:07 So there's lots of, I think, tinkering that's been done, and the Jobs Act was interesting to allow crowdfunding- Mm-hmm... state-based things. 25:13 Hasn't fully kind of manifested a lot of what it's hoped for, but I think it's a really important question you're asking. Interesting. One last question. You've taught a lot of people. I've learned a lot from you. 25:23 Other people have learned, learned a lot from you. What's one thing that you've learned from other people that you've worked with that stuck with you? I think I'll name the Sister Corrine who spent 50 years in 25:35 kind of letting her heart lead her with her investing and just the relationships she built in every case. 25:40 I think in her process of diligence, she often visited the site of the fund or enterprise she was investing in, and I think that's one of the biggest pieces I've learned is to allow my heart to enter into a relationship with somebody and, and then do the diligence and then realize, you know, it may or may not be right fit for me. 25:58 But allowing the relationship allows for right relationship, and I think so much in finance we don't allow ourselves to go that direction. Mm-hmm. 26:05 And I think when you don't have the heart, you don't have the ache for the future that you hope for to be better- Yes... for your children, right? 26:11 And so we have to do the rational diligence, the spreadsheets you talked about, and that's part of our formation. 26:17 But there's a, a book we read called "Real Impact" by Morgan Simon, and she says, "You have to hold your financial education alongside your social education." 26:24 And I think we could do better to hold both of those together in our individual investing and our institutional investing, so that we are really trying to seek to repair the world in the way that I think a lot of our faith traditions encourage us to. 26:35 Perfect way to tie it all together there at the end, too. But Felipe, thank you so much. 26:39 Thanks for all you're doing with the Francesco Collaborative and your new venture in investment banking, and thank you for all that you've taught me along the way here, too. 26:46 But I look forward to hopefully seeing you at the upcoming conference later this year and all the other great things that you have going on. Thanks so much, Matt. Appreciate you. 26:52 We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Purpose Driven Capital podcast. If you found this valuable, be sure to like, subscribe, and share. Are you ready to align your money with your mission? 27:03 Discover the Purpose Driven Capital framework, access practical tools, and build meaningful connections to grow your movement and multiply your impact at PurposeDrivenCapital.co. 27:13 The views and opinions expressed in this show are solely those of the individuals speaking and do not reflect the views or opinions of Honeyhive Capital, any broker-dealer, investment advisory firm, or its sponsors. 27:25 The content is for informational and entertainment purposes only. 27:28 Nothing in this content or any communications from it should be treated as constituting financial, investment, legal, tax, or other advice of any kind, or as a recommendation to buy or sell an interest with respect to any investment. 27:41 We look forward to you joining us next time.
