Transcript 0:00 What verticals do you think are going to see the most impact by these technological advances in the coming years? I think every single one. 0:06 Inflection, one of our portfolio companies, which is a neutral-atom quantum computing company, has been working across almost every single vertical, everything from financial services to healthcare to military defense to communications. 0:20 Welcome to the Purpose Driven Capital podcast, where we help you align your money with your mission and maximize your impact. Here's your host, Matt Johns. 0:30 Today, I had a really fun conversation with Charles Beyrouthy, the founder and managing partner of Forma Prime, a venture capital fund focused on core infrastructure, as in the foundational technologies upon which subsequent tech is built. 0:44 Their key metric? How can others use your technology to build tomorrow's capabilities? Charles has a deep background in technology. 0:54 He's conducted research and applied innovative and novel technologies at top firms in deep tech, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, life sciences, materials, and process optimization. 1:06 Charles' R&D and innovation experience includes roles at Citizens Financial Group, Brown University's Department of Chemistry, Abbott Laboratories, Dartmouth Medical School, and the Silvio Conte National Center for Polymer Research. 1:20 Though our time was more limited than we would've liked today, we focused on current trends and politics that will deeply impact the future of technology and even world power. Absolutely fascinating stuff. 1:32 Welcome to my conversation with Charles Beyrouthy. 1:35 I, I just saw on your LinkedIn not too long ago the special competitive studies project Innovative Capital Summit, and, uh, it was something by, by the Department of Commerce though, and you were there with, uh, I, I know Chuck Schumer was there among many others, but what was that like? 1:50 Yeah. It was really incredible. So the team over there had a great idea to start developing tech hubs in various industries across the United States. 1:59 So let's backtrack a little bit on the, on the premise of what they're looking at. 2:03 They're trying to figure out and say, well, you have centers like Boston, New York, San Francisco, and even places like San Diego, which have really monopolized a lot of the key innovation sectors for development in the United States, right? 2:18 And so now they're asking the question, can we take those verticals and diversify the research centeredness around that and put that across the United States? Hmm. 2:31 So in places like Vermont, in places like Colorado, which was now named the nation's quantum hub, right? You move into places like- Colorado. Colorado, yes. Huh. 100%. 2:42 It is really the, if you wanna call it, the Silicon Valley of quantum in the nation. And so they've developed- Never heard that. That's great. It, it's, it's remarkable, right? 2:51 And, and one of our companies in our portfolio, Inflection, was named as, as really the key example of that because they really set the standard for being that real poster child for development of quantum. 3:05 Obviously, they've received millions of dollars from the US government in terms of development from everyone from the US Air Force to the US Navy to the department of, various areas of the Department of Defense and Intelligence services of this country. 3:19 And it's been amazing to see them be front and center of that, and obviously they're based right in Colorado. So as part of what the Department of Commerce was doing, they developed v- various tech hubs. Yeah. 3:29 Even the state of Rhode Island, for example, was awarded a designation where they are actually moving towards being the ocean tech hub for the United States. 3:39 So being able to say, "We're going to develop drones for various naval applications," or even looking at applications within various naval applications, they're gonna be able to be the, the front and center of that. 3:51 And so when we've taken a look at that initiative, we were very fortunate to have been invited because we got to see firsthand the real strategic view of really turning the United States into the absolute powerhouse that it already is, and taking it to the next level for innovation and technology. 4:13 That's, it's been remarkable to have been a part of that. I, I bet it was. And you, I'm sure you got to meet some key people and some really interesting folks while you're there too. Yeah. 4:22 I mean, it was great to have seen Secretary Gina Raimondo and to have seen, obviously, Chuck Schumer, as you mentioned, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, and we also got to have seen very key visionaries in our industry like Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google, and now- Oh, wow... 4:37 has been working with various aspects of the Department of Defense and various initiatives with the Department of Commerce to help them realize that venture capital and the technology ecosystem that's in the United States can really help solve some of the critical issues that our nation faces today. 4:56 And so we had an opportunity to opine our opinion on the aspect of the CHIPS Act- Mm-hmm... 5:02 which really is a cornerstone now of being able to bring back domestic production and accelerate research and development in the chip space. Yeah. 5:14 Now that, that was one of the things I really wanted to talk to you about because your venture capital firm, Forma Prime, is very focused on these core technologies and, and a lot of these areas that are directly impacted by the CHIPS Act. 5:24 So your mind has been focused there for a while now, uh, for years, and you're seeing all this stuff come to life in a way that it probably never has before, at least in, in, in your career, and probably [laughs] certainly for most of us in our careers. 5:37 Now, what, what's your take on the CHIPS Act, what we're seeing? 5:39 I know we talked about Chip Wars, the fantastic book, last time we were together, and we were talking about the implications, but there are implications today on what technology is happening in the United States, but also implications for our competitive nature and even world powers moving forward. 5:54 What's your take on that as you see the implications of the CHIPS Act and how it's affecting technology, especially here in the United States? This is a great question, right? 6:02 I think the premise of the CHIPS Act, to really simplify it in my view, is twofold. 6:06 On the one hand, you have the question of making more chips, which is some of the great endeavors that folks like AMD, Intel, Nvidia have taken on, in addition obviously to some of their other activities, right, especially in the artificial intelligence space. 6:21 But then you also move into this other realm, which is the question of how do we create even better chips, right? 6:30 So and that's kind of where we've been really focused on, is to ask the question, if we don't need to use five chips to make a single process happen, right, could we reduce that to one? Could we reduce the scale of it? 6:43 Could we reduce the number of chips that we need to produce in order to be able to meet the demand, right? 6:49 And I think that is a key question that is being asked in Washington today, how do we make sure that we're producing a strategy consistently being iterated on to be able to accommodate for both of those cases. Mm-hmm. 7:05 Now, the geopolitical implications of what we're talking about should not be ignored. 7:10 I think if you take a look at, especially when we talk about Taiwan, the supply chain of chips in Taiwan is monumental to the global supply chain of electronics. 7:21 But even more so, it i- it actually takes a greater perspective when you talk about the US military, which over the last 20 to 25 years have pl- has placed a greater emphasis on being able to incorporate technology in every facet of the military defense complex, and that includes everything from aircraft to missiles to even your basic devices. 7:47 Mm-hmm. And all of those run on chips, and that- that's something very, very important. So the US National Defense Authorization Act has actually really put a mandate that most defense companies by 2031 8:03 should be at the point of where they are using 70% of domestically produced chips. Which is a dramatic shift because y- you mentioned Taiwan, and Taiwan is by far the greatest producer of chips in the world. 8:17 It's, and it's something like, what, 70% or so- I, it's some crazy number, right? It, it is, it is definitely, I would say just on aggregate it is over 60%, yes. Sure, yeah. So this is- Right, right... 8:29 a significant impact on us here in the United States if there's any disruption with what happens in Taiwan, which is why they're, the geopolitical stuff like you're talking about could have such an impact on us. 8:38 Well, it's not just, it's, it's not just Tai- it's not just the United States, right? I mean, I think- Right... I think to look at that is at a greater level. Uh, on the consumer supply chain it is global. 8:47 On a mil- military level, NATO will be impacted, right, at a, at a very significant level. 8:53 So I think there's, there are certainly those conversations, all of NATO across all of the various departments and ministries of defense, to be able to have that conversation and say, "What does our supply chain look like?" 9:05 I have here an article that was published in the front page of The Economist in two, in 2018, which literally outlined the nature of what we're talking about today. 9:16 This was written about six years ago, six, seven years ago, with the notional understanding that we will face this problem at some point. So this isn't a new problem. 9:27 I think what the CHIPS Act has done is that it's accentuated the acceleration towards solving that problem. Mm-hmm. 9:36 And when you say it's accentuated the acceleration, what's been accelerated, especially here in the United States? 9:42 So I think there have been a number of grant programs which have been significant towards moving, especially sm- smaller to mid-size firms, towards accelerating production. 9:51 So we know a few companies that have been saying, "Look, we're producing these chips on the military scale. We can work with the defense contractors." 9:59 The Department of Commerce has acted as a key facilitator of that discussion. Mm-hmm. Right? And- Obviously we talk about the larger scale when you look at Intel, right, which has been amazing. 10:09 But also, it's also been very exciting to see the enthusiasm of various folks to be able to start applying technologies, especially the ones that we might be looking at in- investing in- Yeah... 10:21 which has been a central part of our thesis. And that has really driven some of that excitement, saying, "Well look, we've, here's how we've solved it for the last 20 years. 10:31 Why don't we start a new approach and really try to get in line with this new strategy?" And that's a result of this influx of funding that they're experiencing. 10:39 They have an incentive now to produce something that's more advanced technology, I guess I should say, to put that money into R&D and stuff. Absolutely, but I think it's even more focused than that. 10:47 It's not just saying R&D, it's saying more commercially grade driven R&D. 10:52 In other words, this is technology that will be mission ready or has the capability that within a short span of time can go into testing into these various applications, and I think that's the part, very exciting part both on a strategic level but also for investors as well, because they end up getting to see that technology very much applied in that dual use space, both for the military ca- capability, but also for the more commercial capability as well. 11:20 And that's awesome. Yeah, that's a great perspective. Now, uh, speaking of great perspective, you are coming from a research perspective. 11:26 That's kind of where you started when you were in, in school and then shortly thereafter. You did research in a variety of areas, I mean, from chemistry to, to something in, in the medical field. 11:34 I mean, you did all kinds of different things. 11:37 How do you think that granular understanding of technology and functionality of these processes, how do you think it's informed your ability to invest and approach these kinds of technologies now? 11:48 I think the, when we think about the notional understanding of what we're investing in, we have to understand how the tech works, right? Mm-hmm. At least at some fundamental level. 11:57 We're never going to be 100% experts at every technology that we fully go into, but we are going to have enough of a technical understanding that- We will know that we're investing into something real or something that's completely fantastical, right? 12:12 And I think the really exciting part of our platform is that it is very much technology-driven. 12:18 Yes, we can talk about the profits, we can talk about the financials, but in the end, as you've probably seen with very key technology, say, competitions, right, everything from Betamax to VHS and Blu-ray to HD DVD, and a whole bunch of other platforms, it all ca- really comes down to does the technology work? 12:40 Mm-hmm. 12:40 And if the technology is the best in class, it really will supersede the market in terms of being able to have that supreme value which will allow it to get applied in industry and in more defense-oriented aspects much more effectively. 12:59 When I'm thinking about the, the applications and thinking about how it affects us in our daily lives, and, and I mean, I guess generally speaking, society as a whole, what verticals do you think are going to see the most impact by these technological advances in the coming years? 13:12 To be quite frank, I think every single one. I'll, I'll give you even just some examples from our portfolio. Please. 13:19 I mean, right now Infleqtion, one of our portfolio companies, which is a neutral-atom quantum computing company, they're actually one of the few, if not only quantum computing company that has been working across almost every single vertical, everything from financial services to healthcare to military defense to communications, right? 13:39 So for example, let me just walk through that in reverse. L3Harris, uh, has been partnering with Infleqtion to work on quantum RF sensors to be able to make sure that quantum communications are unhackable, right? Mm-hmm. 13:53 And much more viable in the battlefield, right? You have Infleqtion, which launched the first and only quantum computer on the International Space Station to do research projects with NASA's Jet Propulsion lab, right? 14:07 They've launched w- the only really, I would say, market viable quantum GPS- Mm-hmm... 14:13 which is out there in the market today to be able to use, for example, like a submarine or like a, uh, aircraft, right, which they actually just did a, a test on a CRJ 100, where you could actually put the GPS in there and you would never have to rely on satellites. 14:31 So it's using cold atom technology to be able to create an independent navigation system into completely 100% independent of satellites. Now what, what's the application for that? 14:41 Well, as you probably saw in the Middle East conflict between, um, Israel and, and Hamas, we actually saw the 100-mile range at one point of GPS being completely jammed, right? For security purposes. 14:58 And so what happens when you have a civilian aircraft which is trying to fly over or trying to fly within 100 miles, it basically loses its navigational capabilities, and so that is extremely dangerous. 15:10 So the idea that, for example, civilian aircraft could become so much more safer and even potentially enable autonomous flight, that is something that is extremely exciting, right? Mm-hmm. 15:23 Now we move into, for example, our portfolio company in Germany, Faradayk Sensors. What they've done 15:30 is they've created the world's smallest and most effective gas sensors for, at, basically name an application, everything from food freshness to being able to detect, uh, CO2 in jet suits, right, or oxygen in jet suits. 15:47 Being able to detect CO2 in the air or, for example, being able to put these into CPAP machines for, uh, healthcare applications, right? 15:57 So you're talking about this multifaceted, right, I'm obviously talking about all of these various applications, right? All of them coming together. 16:05 Gradient, one of our technologies, has been utilizing the chipsets in order to create a way so that you would not be misidentified or- Mm-hmm... your credentials could not be stolen. 16:19 So the idea that passwords or YubiKeys, which are frankly just obsolete from an implementation perspective, could just be completely eliminated, right? 16:27 But then not only that, the notional understanding that this application could also be ported over to a chip to create a chip on... or security on a chip is a completely remarkable idea. 16:38 So what we're talking about here is that people need to, to start thinking about where these technologies are gonna fit into their strategies. 16:47 And I speak to mainly the companies that are device makers in terms of their thinking and saying, "We can really take this technology and apply it today." Mm-hmm. And that's really exciting. It's very exciting. 16:58 And [laughs] I'm glad that you can kind of weave in the practical versus the very ethereal side of it too, because a, a lot of this is beyond comprehension. 17:06 I mean, looking at a chip, it's kinda hard to imagine the complexity of that thing that's smaller than my fingernail or smaller than the tip of my fingernail, right? But- Yeah, it's exciting, isn't it? It, it is. 17:14 But you get so excited about these things because you understand it, and you understand the complexity and you've focused on these core technologies. 17:21 And I, I believe if I'm, I'm correct, it's semiconductors, quantum computing, and sensors. Is that right? So the, the terminology we use on quantum computing is actually more quantum because we don't- Uh-huh... 17:30 just focus on the computing base. Some of it is also based on sensors. Can you explain quantum? What is that? Most people don't know. I don't know how to define it. Go ahead. [laughs] Well, [laughs] what is quantum? 17:41 It really depends on, on the application, how people think about it. 17:43 But essentially what people have known in their typical understanding of, of computing, right, let's just use that as example, most computing happens in zeros and ones. Mm-hmm. Quantum is much more expansive, right? 17:55 And it has the ability to transcend, uh, that binomial, right, between zero and one, and go into a much more larger array to, for, for everything from encryption to processing to being able to create these various navigation tools we've been talking about. 18:11 And at the end of the day, really what it comes down to is being able to manipulate atoms- For the purposes of being able to move information much faster Fascinating. 18:23 That, that's the best explanation I've heard yet [laughs] for quantum. I, and that- It's very... 18:28 That's, I will be honest, and I'm sure there's gonna be quite a few folks who are watching this from your quantum group, quantum who, who have some real amazing expertise in quantum and be like, "That's probably the most rudimentary explanation ever." 18:38 But it's a very basic comprehension there in terms of what we're thinking, right? And that's, I think, where we look at this. Well, for our purposes, getting started at a very clear starting point is what we need. 18:49 So you're focused on semiconductors, quantum, and sensors. Why those three areas for you personally? What drives you to want to know more and dive into those areas? 19:00 So I think the basics here is that we see a, a congruency between the commercialization of those three verticals. So I think what it... We, we get the constant notion that people think of us as a deep tech fund. Mm-hmm. 19:16 And that's exciting and all, but I, I wanna sort of debunk one theory about funds that I think should be m- understood. 19:25 Right now, the investment landscape, in my opinion, has changed, and LPs especially want to look for funds that have a real expertise in what they're investing in, not just a financial expertise. 19:39 The financial expertise, I give a lot of credit to those folks who are in the public markets or a high level priv- private equity where the aspect of mathematical modeling or financial modeling are absolutely prevalent and absolutely make sense. 19:55 But when you have a technology that is at its fundamental early stages and still has not been proven out, and even some cases the market just doesn't exist for these, right? 20:06 But yet a market could be imagined or a mar- or an application set could be imagined, financial understanding is not enough for that, right? Mm-hmm. 20:17 So we need to think about what do we do better in terms of the investment thesis, and our real e- expectation here is to be able to invest into companies that we know that we're gonna be able to give context on their commercialization, not just on their idea that, yes, we're gonna invest in them because they're thematic. 20:37 Yes, we don't go out of thesis, but we are looking at 20:42 the notional understanding that comp- VC funds should be investing bec- especially early stage, looking at the fundamentals of the technology and the fundamentals of where these technologies can be applied. 20:57 That's our fundamental belief. So when you look at the three of those, like quantum, semiconductors, sensors, all of them have very similar applications. 21:07 Some of them have more directed applications in a single area than o- than others, but they all have very similar applications, very similar overlaps, very similar commercial strategies. 21:19 So with that, can you maybe unveil a little bit about your investment process, what you're looking at when you're looking at these core technologies? Funny story. 21:29 Today I had to actually explain this to a founder I was talking to and, and he was, he was actually quite surprised because he's like, "Wow, you actually want to go into our architecture and paper set and understand what we do." 21:40 And that, that is absolutely 100% the case. Uh, we have a really exciting advisory board who is completely dedicated to understanding the, the aspects of saying, "Great. 21:50 Yes, we're going to invest in the te- in this technology because it is going to go to market." Now, for some companies, that go to market may take some time. 22:00 That's not something that we're scared of, but at least we do wanna have an understanding of where that goes. Mm-hmm. If we don't have an understanding of where that goes, that makes it very difficult for us to invest. 22:12 Now, what is the difference between us and money that you might get from a grant agency like DARPA, like NSF, like NIH, like some of these other folks who most investors believe that's who should be investing in this space? 22:28 Mm-hmm. The difference in our case is that we today have over 100 different entities which work with our portfolio companies. 22:37 And the reason is because we place a great impetus for our portfolio companies to commercialize. If they don't commercialize, 22:46 they are basically going to continue in research, and we are very big proponents of being able to have these companies move into a certain level of proof of concept. A- and you're saying that- Proof of concept... 22:58 these granters really focus more on the research and the development, not necessarily the commercialization, right? So the gr- the government has actually developed some really amazing vehicles. 23:08 So one of them obviously is, is grants, right? Mm-hmm. 23:10 Which will really say, "Okay, we're gonna give you some grant capital to develop some level of intellectual property or some level of research that is publishable that will potentially lead to some technological advances down the road." 23:24 Then you have the SBIRs, which have been through the US Department of Commerce and Small Business Administration, looking at how to apply those technologies in actual real-life application. 23:37 And then you also have various folks at the Air Force, the military, or rather I should say the US Army as well as the, uh, US Navy that are saying, "Yes, we will pay you to use your technology or to test out your technology." 23:51 Mm-hmm. And so we're happy with all of those, but the idea that we wanna be able to make sure that these companies are dealing with more of the practical as a VC investor and not as much in the research. 24:06 Every company we invest in is gonna have some element of research and some element of development which they will have to continue on iterating. That's really exciting. 24:15 But there is a certain, uh, change in mindset when you start to get product market fit. Yes. And this is something I say across all industries. The way you think about the, how you actually use technology... 24:28 changes, right? Because you, it takes the guesswork out and it gives you something to pivot on rather than just to pivot in a, in a sort of arbitrary way. 24:39 And so what's exciting is our companies get to do that on a daily basis. They're constantly pivoting. They're constantly getting feedback. 24:46 They're constantly getting new ideation on what the next product should be or what the next capability should be. That's really exciting to us. 24:54 So a- as you're investing in these companies, as you're looking forward into the future implications of these, you're looking for the best beneficial use of that technology. 25:03 What do you hope to see happens, not just in these particular through your fund and, and, and those investments, but for the future of technology, the, the future of the CHIPS Act, what are you s- hoping comes from all of this and that future vision, especially here in the United States? 25:19 Well, I'm really excited by the fact that, first of all, many of these companies will be producing here in the United States and in, with some of our NATO allies as well in Europe to be able to really consolidate a solid, what you would call production center for, for these applications, right? 25:40 Second of all, I'm really excited by the real drive to bring some of these innovations to commercialization, which is really great, and I think that, that will happen. 25:49 I, I mean, Matt, look, at the end of the day, we're talking about a technology which has wide-ranging applications, right? The processors that put the Apollo team on the moon, right, that technology is 26:08 so rudimentary that, like, you could probably have a more pr- powerful processor on your phone today, right, versus what they had. Mm-hmm. 26:17 But what that also should tell us is that the technology like this in the wrong hands is a very dangerous proposition. 26:26 And so there has been some awakening that if, for example, Taiwan were to fall tomorrow and this technology were to end up in, on s- in hands that aren't as safe, what could that technology be used for? Mm-hmm. 26:45 And so I think that today we are starting to understand the full line of implications, right, that high-powered chips can do, right? 26:55 Now, certainly we talk about the amazing peaceful applications such as being able to have safer food, cleaner water, being able to have artificial intelligence in various aspects of our live, lives and be able to talk about how we can just get infor- information on a whim, right? 27:15 I mean, people have been talking about the possible obsoleteness of search, right? Mm-hmm. 27:21 And how search is now being challenged as a way to get information when you could just go to ChatGPT, and ChatGPT can give you, I mean, it could cook something for you. [laughs] Right? 27:30 And so, you know, the, the need for data centers and chips has become immense because now you're s- having all of that demand. Mm-hmm. But let's talk about drones. Let's talk about nuclear weapons. 27:43 Let's talk about being able to have space warfare. Hmm. Right? These technologies can impact the battlefield in those domains. 27:56 And so we have to be much more vigilant around how this technology is used, where this technology is exported, the capabilities for technology transfer, right, where production centers are being developed for these technologies globally. 28:15 There is a real concern, and we've talked about this at length both with the US government as well as just our own internal team, on what could the technologies that we are investing in do. 28:29 And that is, that is something that we wanna make sure that is, is, is seriously guarded. Yeah, and you brought up AI, and then we got AGI coming up down the road here too. 28:39 I mean, all this stuff is gonna be the foundational elements that lead to that practical application. 28:44 [laughs] And like you said, there are further implications to all of this stuff that we have to keep in mind throughout the process. 28:50 But as far as investing goes, speaking to those who are planning on, to invest in technologies, e- especially future technologies like this, what advice would you give, or I guess, what recommendations would you give to anybody who's considering to make those investments now? 29:05 Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, it really depends on what, what area they're looking at, and I would also go in even further as to say at what stage they're looking at. 29:12 I mean, certainly you've seen, uh, the various folks like AMD which have done s- tremendously well in terms of the AI revolution, right? 29:22 But they've also been one of the only chip makers that's also, uh, worked across CPUs and GPUs- Hmm... right, which has been substantial. But then you take a look at the more 29:34 private side, right, which is you have larger fabs that are coming up, but then you also have startups, right, which in our space are, are really starting to crop up and are, and, and are emerging. 29:45 I mean, certainly there are funds that are taking positions in those spaces at, at various points, and it's, it's great that they are. It's great that they're taking an interest. 29:55 I think that we do need to be careful about the hype, and I think hype is something that people tend to fall for quite frequently. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and regardless of industry, right, and I think- Nothing new, right? 30:08 Yeah. [laughs] This is nothing new. But I, but I think it's when people get into hype, they tend to make mistakes. Yeah. Right? 30:14 And I think those mistakes start to prevail when, uh, there is a hysteria around valuations, when there is hysteria around being able to get these chips into practical applications. 30:26 And I'll, I'll give you a perfect example, right? Mm-hmm. So we've talked about AI chips, which are, which are really a hot thing right now. Mm-hmm Um, but what is an AI chip, right? Can, can somebody define that for me? 30:38 And what, how does an AI chip process better, but more even importantly than that, how does an AI chip go into application? So, in other words, you know, how does Matt take advantage of an AI chip? 30:55 Oh, are you asking or- That's- No. [laughs] No, no, it's a rhetorical question, right? Uh-huh. In other words, you're gonna... 31:00 I mean, if you're gonna be using a computer, right, or you're using a desktop or you're using any of these, right, devices, or even the cloud, yes, you're gonna have access to that technology. Mm-hmm. 31:12 But then the question is, all right, the device manufacturers are gonna be asking, are we gonna be buyers of these chips, right? Which chips will we buy? 31:19 Are we gonna develop our own chips like Amazon and Microsoft have started already, right? And Apple, right? 31:25 Right, since they decided that they wanted to develop their own processors around their own capabilities and own operating system, they decided to develop their own processors in order to be able to accommodate that and not rely on the typical chip manufacturers to be able to do that. 31:41 So we go back to the fundamental point, how does the chip get on the board? And that is a commercial question that is, I think, going to be the real commercial fight of, of the century, right? Mm-hmm. 31:56 When you have hyperscalers like Amazon, right, certainly they are going to be consumers of their own technology. And so then you s- you simply have the same understanding with a company like Microsoft, right? 32:07 Where they're going to be, in most cases, consumers of their own processors for their own laptops. That is to say, I think that if investors are looking to move into an early-stage position, and I... 32:20 And, and again, this is a biased view- Mm-hmm... I am suggesting that they go into funds primarily for nothing else other than risk, right? 32:28 Is to be able to diversify the risk across a multitude of companies, not just having all their bets in a single firm, right? Mm-hmm. 32:36 Unless they know there is an absolute path without equivocation on how the technology is going to go into commercialization. So let's say the company says, "Hey, guess what? 32:46 We have an absolute letter of intent from a major company that is gonna be t- buying out a million of these chips." That's, you know, very rare, but- Possible. Mm-hmm... 32:58 if you then go into the realm of, okay, we've got some development here, but by the time it's done, we are going to ha- you know, be the best on the market. The question is, okay, you're the best on the market, 33:10 how do you get onto the, uh, onto the board? Mm-hmm. Right? So that would be my suggestion to folks. I do suggest that folks try to have some exposure in general. 33:22 And again, I'm not a, you know, financial advisor, but in any case, you will find that the semiconductor space has done very well in the last couple years. Mm-hmm. 33:32 Chips are becoming a commodity like water, and so they are needed. There is a need for supply of them. There's going to be a greater need of supply of them, especially from a domestically produced space. 33:44 There are gonna need to be producers that are gonna need to be financed and invested into, and I think that will start to move investors' capital into saying, "Yes, there is a return here because we are investing in the success of America." 33:59 And I think that's a very noble and profitable endeavor. Now, Charles, that, that's fantastic. This has been super fascinating for me. I really, really appreciate it. 34:07 But I wish you all the best with, with all you're doing, especially with Forma Prime and with all the many other things that you have going on. I appreciate that. Thank you so much, Glenn. All right, Charles, take care. 34:17 We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Purpose Driven Capital podcast. If you found this valuable, be sure to like, subscribe, and share. Are you ready to align your money with your mission? 34:27 Discover the Purpose Driven Capital framework, access practical tools, and build meaningful connections to grow your movement and multiply your impact at purposedrivencapital.co. 34:38 The views and opinions expressed in this show are solely those of the individuals speaking and do not reflect the views or opinions of Honeyhive Capital, any broker-dealer, investment advisory firm, or its sponsors. 34:49 The content is for informational and entertainment purposes only. 34:53 Nothing in this content, nor any communications from it, should be treated as constituting financial, investment, legal, tax, or other advice of any kind, or as a recommendation to buy or sell an interest with respect to any investment. 35:05 We look forward to you joining us next time.
